119. It’s Time for Us to Get Serious About Marketing with Ernesto Cullari and Barbara Wardell

Jordan Berry [00:00:00]:

Hey, what’s up, guys? It’s Jordan with Laundromat Bed Resource Podcast. This is show 119. And I’m pumped you here today because today we are joined by Ernesto and Barbara from Kulari and Wardell ad agency and we’re talking Geofencing. And I gotta be honest with you, when they reached out to me, I was like, I don’t know Geofencing, but they started telling me about what they do and more impressively, who they’re doing it for right now. And they’re going to drop some names that you’re going to recognize here. Previous podcast guests, legitimate legends of this industry are using Kalari and Mardell for their Geofencing ad targeting. Man, this is impressive. This is a deep dive that we go into. There’s a lot of practical strategies that we go through today with them and stuff that you can use whether you.

Jordan Berry [00:00:52]:

Use them or not.

Jordan Berry [00:00:53]:

That was my criteria. Hey, come on the podcast, but you’ve got to give us some stuff that Laundromat owners can use, whether they use you or not. And they deliver. It is an amazing interview. Not only that, they have agreed to do a live Q and A and that’ll be free for us. You’ll get more information on that. But just to give you the date in case you want to mark your calendar, it’s going to be July 20 at 01:00 P.m. Eastern, which is what is that? 10:00 a.m Pacific time. 10:00 a.m Pacific one eastern. On July 20, we’re going to do a live Q and A. Should be a ton of fun and a lot of just good information. So listen to this episode and get pumped, write down your questions and then join us with that live Q and A. And then also the other thing that I’m super pumped about is I think if you own a Laundromat or you’re looking to get one, you’re going to.

Jordan Berry [00:01:44]:

Probably want to work with them.

Jordan Berry [00:01:45]:

And they have offered for the pro community, Laundromat Resource pro community, $300 off their initial services if you are a pro community member. So go check them [email protected]. And that link will be in the Show Notes, which is at laundromatresource. comShow 119. Or if you’re on YouTube down below, make sure you hit subscribe and the like button and leave a comment and all that stuff. But $300 off if you are in the pro community there. So that’s just another we’re well over $3,000 worth of pro perks for being a pro community member. So check out the rest of the pro [email protected] pro. And if you’re thinking about using these guys, it’s worth it to go join the pro community, get all the benefits from being a part of the pro community, plus $300 off their services. So without further ado, join us for the Q and A. Go join the pro community. So you can get that $300 off. But let’s jump into it with Ernesto and Barbara because that will convince you of the power of Geofencing for your Laundromat. Let’s jump into it right now.

Jordan Berry [00:02:50]:

Ernesto and Barbara, number one, I’m very excited. Thank you guys for taking the time to come on the podcast. But when you guys jumped on camera, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is official. I was blown away. You guys are, like, in a studio. If you’re listening to this on the podcast and not watching this, you may want to go watch this because, number one, their studio looks awesome. And number two, you guys look great too. So thanks for coming on the show. How are you guys doing?

Ernesto Cullari [00:03:15]:

Good.

Barbara Wardell [00:03:15]:

Doing great today.

Ernesto Cullari [00:03:16]:

Thanks for having us.

Barbara Wardell [00:03:17]:

We really appreciate it.

Jordan Berry [00:03:19]:

It’s my pleasure. And I know we’ve been kind of going back and forth for a little bit to get you on the show, and the day is finally here, so I’m very excited. Why don’t you give us a little bit of a background of who you guys are, and then I want to kind of get into how did you get from where you were to here, advertising for Laundromats, of all things?

Ernesto Cullari [00:03:42]:

Okay, well, Barbara and I have a very similar background. We were both, at one time, medical reps. I was an or operating room sales.

Barbara Wardell [00:03:51]:

Rep, and I did specialty medicines.

Ernesto Cullari [00:03:55]:

And my dream was never having a never have a real job. Right? So when you’re a med rep, you got to get the surgery on time. Barbara the same. She had to get the doctor’s offices. And it was sort of our dream to be independent, not to really work for anyone. And around 2012 I ran for us. Congress and Charles Measley from Fluff and Fold and such. Digital Actually, it was his fault. He talked me into running for Congress, and we started doing classic Charles always get me to do crazy stuff. So we were running Facebook ads for political, you know, for my my congressional run. And at the time, we also needed to do headshots. So I was not a photographer at all. So if people look into our company now, you’ll see that we’ve shot for the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld. We’ve done their TV commercials, but we needed a camera in 2012, so we buy this camera. I didn’t like anyone’s headshots, so I’m like, set up the camera. I’m like, here, take my headshot like this, and then poof. Overnight, I lost my congressional race, but I became a very well known photographer, and that’s how I got into digital. Charles measley congress. So here we are. And then CALERIE Media. We started about seven years ago, and we you know, we were heavy in the makeup industry, cosmetics, food, and hotels. And then last year, Barbara and I decided that we wanted to focus exclusively on Laundromats and in that Geofencing for Laundromats. And again, Charles is like, there’s this big need in the industry to drive in store visits, and he’s like, you need to learn this technology geofencing, because if you can, one, it’s going to change our industry, and two, I’ll introduce you to everybody. So, of course, he introduced me to Peter Maybury, Luke and Lee Williford. We now have, like, Joe, Dan, Reed and Kelly.

Barbara Wardell [00:06:10]:

And we have Michael Jones, which is.

Ernesto Cullari [00:06:13]:

Yes, Michael Jones was a guest.

Jordan Berry [00:06:15]:

Jones another all star of the podcast.

Ernesto Cullari [00:06:17]:

All star, great guy. Dan Campbell and Mark Taylor. I’m sure we’re going to miss a lot of people, but we met a lot of great people. These are a lot of our customers that we have. And what I love most about laundry is that, like, people like yourself, people like us, we wanted to do our own thing. And the Laundromat industry is filled with.

Barbara Wardell [00:06:43]:

People like that and very good work, very good people, really. We’ve been embraced by them. And I have to say, with our backgrounds, being in the medical industry, we love helping people. So this was something that I immediately just fell in love with, that we could take small businesses and help them grow, like the bigger business technology that they have, and we could bring it to small businesses. And I was just in love with it. It was just amazing technology to look at and to learn. I was actually going to open up three laundry mats.

Ernesto Cullari [00:07:20]:

I talked her out of it originally. She was going to go to the boot camp that the Williford brothers were putting on. I was like, Barbara, if you’re going to get in the laundry industry, you got to learn from these guys. And I was like, I’m going to go and be a speaker. You can go as my guest. And then just the more we talked about it was like, no, you need to help me run my company. We need to start our own company together, and you need to help me run this. Right. Because I could do all the technical and creative stuff, but I’m an idiot, like, when it comes to running a company. So that’s actually how we ended up teaming up.

Barbara Wardell [00:07:54]:

Yeah, because I have that background as well. I had a couple of companies with my ex husband, so it was a great combination between the both of us. We loved it.

Jordan Berry [00:08:06]:

How funny. Okay, so the birth of this company came out of the death of the dream of three Laundromat.

Ernesto Cullari [00:08:16]:

You never know that’s, right. Very possible that we would open so.

Barbara Wardell [00:08:20]:

Much about the business. It’s amazing. I think if we did that, I.

Ernesto Cullari [00:08:28]:

Feel bad for all the other lunch. It’s not fair technologically. It just wouldn’t be fair.

Jordan Berry [00:08:35]:

That’s the kind of confidence.

Ernesto Cullari [00:08:37]:

What we’re doing right now is like alien technology. We’ll get more into the nitty gritty of what the technology can do and what we’ve been able to do with it. I sent you an email yesterday of some assets that we sent over. It’s just like it’s cutting edge to the fact that as of yesterday, we took on two new capabilities.

Barbara Wardell [00:09:01]:

It’s just amazing. As we grow, the more technology grows and it’s exciting, it really is exciting to bring this to small businesses, especially laundromats, to make them grow in a time like this just forms me hard.

Jordan Berry [00:09:19]:

Insane stuff that we’re going to talk about. And I’ve looked through all the stuff that you sent, so I’m really excited to get through, start talking about some of the nitty gritty stuff. But I know that the people listening to this, as they mention you mentioned some of your client list and some of the just real heavy hitters in the industry that ears are perking up here and you’ve got my attention. Hopefully you’ve got a lot of people’s attention here on this dodge or we’ll be in trouble.

Ernesto Cullari [00:09:48]:

Sorry, when you said you have all these, I was like, wait, if you don’t mention Ross and Russell, we’ll probably get in trouble. They’re great.

Jordan Berry [00:10:00]:

Yeah, in fact, if you would have missed them, you probably would have had to send them like a case of wine or something.

Ernesto Cullari [00:10:07]:

He would have accepted.

Jordan Berry [00:10:09]:

Yeah, I know, that’s smooth things over with Ross if you can send him wine. So that’s the one good side. No, yeah, exactly. I mean, listen, that is like the who’s who in this industry that you guys are representing there. And so I’m super excited to hear what it is that you guys are actually doing for these customers and how that works and what some of the results are. And I’m super excited to hear about what some of the new capabilities that are coming out right now. We talk about whenever marketing comes up or social media or anything like that. Inevitably somebody says, man, things are changing all the time, or man, things changed pretty dramatically and we had to shift or we got left behind, whatever, things change all the time. So hearing new stuff that’s come out as of like yesterday, even I can’t wait to hear that too. So let’s start with what exactly do you guys do? What are you guys doing?

Ernesto Cullari [00:11:12]:

So geofencing, which is our passion, our business, uses the special relationship between smart devices and satellites. And with the satellite, there are three GPS satellites that we have access to. We’re able to take them and task them to draw a virtual fence around any location. So once we draw a fence around a location, we can then send ads out and measure smartphone devices that enter that fence. So in short, geofencing is the ability to draw precise fences around a building and then target those people with ads that enter that building. So say for example, all your competitors in a given region and then send ads to their smart devices and then when they see your ad, their device is captured. It’s anonymized meaning we protect the privacy of the smartphone user, but we could draw certain inferences based on your location so if you’re in a competitor Laundromat, it’s fair to say that if we offer you a better opportunity, a better service down the street, it’s more likely you’ll come to one of our stores. And then when you do, the satellite pings us, alerting us that a new.

Barbara Wardell [00:12:29]:

Visit has taken place, and it’s all satellite verified. Those are the reports, yeah.

Jordan Berry [00:12:36]:

Well, and that’s pretty incredible. It’s one thing to be able to target a specific area, which is incredible in and of itself, but then it’s another thing to be able to follow that, basically, and determine that they’ve actually come to your location after the fact, which is that’s a game changer.

Barbara Wardell [00:12:56]:

I think it really is. We’ve done over 5000 satellite verified in store visits for our clients across the country. So, yeah, we’re excited.

Ernesto Cullari [00:13:05]:

So that’s where we are now. Today we’re delivering 5000 satellite verified visits just to Laundromats every month. And we’re not a big company, it’s just me and Barbara.

Barbara Wardell [00:13:18]:

We have a team, but we are in the trenches. We work really hard with our clients and their ad, spend money, and we make sure that they’re getting the value. And that’s very important. We don’t resource it. We’re right in the trenches, making sure that their ads are where they’re supposed to be and getting the results in front of the people.

Jordan Berry [00:13:40]:

Yeah. Which is pretty awesome. Okay, so Geofencing, just to kind of sum it up, is basically drawn an invisible fence around a location or multiple locations to target ads for, right?

Barbara Wardell [00:13:55]:

Yeah, kind of like invisible fence for dogs. Yeah, kind of like that where they come and said you want them to come in, not keep them out. But that’s the premise if you want something to kind of visualize.

Jordan Berry [00:14:13]:

Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. So can you talk to me a little bit about what are some of the strategies that you guys are using with Geofencing that you’re finding good results from? Because, I mean, you throw out 5000 satellite visits a month, right? Well, I start translating that to money in the bank for my Laundromat, and that becomes very attractive compounds every month. Yeah. So what?

Ernesto Cullari [00:14:44]:

We joke all the time that if someone were to buy me an Escalate because Barbara has a nice car and I drive a Honda, I was like, if someone were to buy me an Escalate every month, that would more or less be a good investment on their part. We’re making them a lot of money. So our method is a little different. Jordan, we do foot traffic studies first, so it’s important, even if you’re not using geofencing as a technique and a tactic and an advertising method, say you want to do every door direct or something like that, or even Facebook ads, understanding where your business comes from and understanding where your competitors get their business.

Barbara Wardell [00:15:27]:

So important it is.

Ernesto Cullari [00:15:29]:

So we use satellites first to run a foot traffic study and we do it for all of our clients and we look at their competition, we also look at their core business and where their core business is coming from. That way we know where to spend their ad dollars. So if we look at an overlay, satellite overlay and where all these mobile devices are coming from that are entering your store, if we see a pocket, say there’s like a highway that should be delivering you people and they’re not, then we know like, hey, we have a weakness here. Here’s a major highway that leads right to your business and you’re not getting any customers from this area and you should be.

Barbara Wardell [00:16:12]:

So that’s where we come in and.

Ernesto Cullari [00:16:14]:

A mobile device foot traffic study will tell you that. So right off the bat, our methodology is a little different. We go in and we get an overview of where business is a half hour before they get to your store and a half hour after. And we can know with great accuracy over the last two years where everyone came from, every single mobile device that entered your store. We have an overview of where that came from. And then we take that holistic approach of looking where people went to before and after your store. And then we target those select buildings so that we’re not wasting ad dollars on just trying to bombard something that’s not going to give you a return on your investment.

Barbara Wardell [00:17:05]:

And that’s one of the benefits, being with us in our company, working with us, because we do take care with that ad spend and that money. We really do.

Ernesto Cullari [00:17:16]:

We get nervous with people’s money. It’s a big burden, it’s a blessing. But you don’t want to mess around with people’s money. It’s hard earned money. So we tried to do a lot of homework before we launch a campaign.

Barbara Wardell [00:17:32]:

And that’s where we got our formula for the success that we’ve had so far. We came out with a formula. Well not going to tell everything.

Ernesto Cullari [00:17:46]:

The best way that we can explain it without giving away the secret sauce is a foot traffic study. And that is unique to every single business. And it’s those data points that we take to bake the cake for you, to bake the cake for the willifords. Baking is very precise. It’s not like cooking, it’s very precise. So we tried to be as precise as possible and we tried to be good stewards with your money. And that is one our major commitment, Barbara and I, to each other, is to be good stewards of the trust that clients give us. Because just like everybody else, we’re a small business and every dollar that we have coming in the door for ourselves, we manage. And certainly with your money, we take it even more seriously.

Barbara Wardell [00:18:35]:

Yeah.

Jordan Berry [00:18:37]:

Just out of curiosity sorry, just out of curiosity, where are people before? I mean, have you found anything interesting? Like are they at grocery stores or like, what’s where are people before they are laundromat?

Ernesto Cullari [00:18:52]:

At a grocery store. Right? They are convenience store convenience stores. They’re at dollar stores.

Barbara Wardell [00:18:59]:

ATMs.

Ernesto Cullari [00:19:00]:

ATMs. That’s one of our secrets right there. Think about it. A lot of Laundromat are still coin operated. Those people are going to get some cash and then they’re going to a laundromat. So we target ATM machines.

Jordan Berry [00:19:17]:

Yeah. Can you target yeah. How small of a space can you target?

Ernesto Cullari [00:19:23]:

Actually, we could target a phone booth that they still existed. Our technology is accurate up to a few inches, so it’s one of the competitive advantages we have is the technology we’re heavily invested. Barbara was going to spend that money on laundromats. I was like, no, Barbara, you need to study where so we can get these technologies that are just not they’re being used for larger companies like the Chipotle’s of the world.

Barbara Wardell [00:19:52]:

He just twisted by our as if.

Ernesto Cullari [00:19:55]:

I could so, yeah, we we heavily invested in technology so that we can accurately target where we need to target and so that we can get the intelligence on locations that is necessary to effectively geotarget something. But to give you an idea, I did a foot traffic study on my apartment, and I’ve lived in the same apartment for 20 years. And it’s kind of funny. Do you ever see those news stories about if you put a tracker on your cats, where do they go when you let them out the door?

Jordan Berry [00:20:32]:

Right.

Ernesto Cullari [00:20:33]:

Oddly, it turns out that they stay generally within three mile radius and wouldn’t you know, Laundromats, that’s where your business as well. It’s generally within that three mile radius. But no. So I did on my apartment, I was like, oh, this is pretty interesting. It’s like, I was there, I was there.

Barbara Wardell [00:20:53]:

He didn’t even know where he was.

Jordan Berry [00:20:58]:

Well, that’s funny because we are I’ve said this about Laundromats a lot is it’s a very habitual, rhythmic sort of business, and it’s just something that’s like a part of life and a rhythmic part of life. But a lot of times we’re on autopilot when we do that stuff, right? Like, we’re going to go to the dollar store or the ATM and then the Laundromat, and we do that every week. You know what I mean? That really does play into this pretty well, I think, actually. Sure. Listen, I have a confession to make. So I am, I am seeing, like, the crazy business potential of geofencing, right? Like, I see how this could be, like, incredibly powerful, and I want to keep talking about it because there’s more, but my confession is I’m a little more childish than that. And I’m thinking if we can target, like, a phone booth, that means we can target my brother’s bathroom and I can run targeted ads to my brother.

Barbara Wardell [00:22:01]:

So what would you like to send him?

Jordan Berry [00:22:04]:

Well, we’re going to have to talk offline about that, but it’s going to be a lot of fun. That’s all I know. It’s not really going to make me any money.

Ernesto Cullari [00:22:11]:

Barbara and I are both single and we joked, like, we could put this dating app together if we wanted. I probably shouldn’t be saying this, but we could. So, for example, patent pending, my ex girlfriend has a hot yoga studio and I was like, I should just send my pictures into her hot yoga studio every single day.

Jordan Berry [00:22:32]:

This is powerful stuff. I’m just saying this is powerful stuff. I don’t know, do you guys have a grasp at how powerful you guys could be with this company?

Barbara Wardell [00:22:44]:

This is great. There’s guys not even a limit at this point. We’re embracing all the technology and always looking ahead to see what else we can bring to our customers. I mean, it’s mind blowing.

Ernesto Cullari [00:23:02]:

So another general thing to know about Geofencing, so people ask what’s an ad look like? What happens? How do I get this ad? So for years, most people would receive an ad, a display ad, right? A banner ad at the top, banner out at the bottom. If you’re on a desktop computer or an iPad, it might be in the margins. That is typically how you would get an ad. That’s how you would see it, that’s how you would consume it. So you’re in the King James Bible, you’re on ESPN, you’re in Telemundo, you’re on Breitbart weather app. Yeah, a weather app. So you’re in the app and the app is at the top, it’s at the bottom, could be in the margin. So that’s been the tradition. But what is brand new is that we can run a native ad. That’s a Geofencing ad. A native ad is like if you’re reading a new story and it’s part of the story, like as you’re scrolling through I sent you a slide on that. As you’re scrolling through a new story, you think you’re reading about the debt sailing, then all of a sudden, the wash house Laundromat ad is like right in the middle. But native is meant to look organic. So no matter what website you’re on, it’s not obtuse. It’s something that feels like it belongs on the page. It feels organic. So that is an exciting development with Geofencing. And then as of yesterday, we acquired the capability. No matter what social media you have, we’re able to turn that into a Geofencing ad. So if you’re in TikTok, if you’re on Instagram and you want to reach people and then convert them to a visit, we’re able to do that with social media as well.

Barbara Wardell [00:25:00]:

That’s so exciting.

Jordan Berry [00:25:03]:

Yeah, that is. I mean, listen, now that we have TikTok capabilities while my brother’s in the bathroom, he’s out of control. I have two younger brothers, so they’re both done for. Okay, that’s incredibly powerful stuff. And those are brand new. Brand new, right? Those are the things that you sent me yesterday, right?

Ernesto Cullari [00:25:34]:

Yeah. It’s a capability unique to us because of our technology. It’s not something that you can get. I think I was saying before we started, even if you’re at Ogilvy, which is one of the Ogilvy, I’ve read his books and I just think he was like the master of advertising. But even if you’re at Ogilvy, you probably wouldn’t know that this capability exists. It’s because we research so often and we’re using AI to the best of our ability to do further advancements for geofencing. This is an ability that we acquired just yesterday.

Jordan Berry [00:26:13]:

Okay, listen, maybe people haven’t told you yet, but Laundromats are not on the cutting edge of stuff like this. Okay? You guys could just back it off a little. That’s what I’m talking about. Yes.

Ernesto Cullari [00:26:30]:

So that’s the thing. A lot of big companies have access to this. The Chipotle’s of the world are driving visits through a method like this. For Chipotle, it was they wanted through COVID, they wanted to expand their pickup service where you go to the drive up and pick up your food. So this is a technology that they were using and now pickup is one of their largest verticals for chipotle. Yes. Laundromat owners and small business owners traditionally didn’t have access to these technologies. But it’s important to do it and it’s important to price things so that a small business can acquire this capability.

Jordan Berry [00:27:18]:

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Barbara Wardell [00:27:22]:

No, I was just going to say and that was really important to us to try to figure this out for the price point and to really bring in the business and make it worthwhile for them to invest in Geofencing and make it affordable.

Jordan Berry [00:27:37]:

Yeah, that’s one of the benefits of technology that’s developing so quickly. Right. It can be super overwhelming to try to keep up with everything. We can talk more about that in a little bit, but one of the benefits is that things become more accessible to smaller businesses. Right. And like you said, if you told somebody even two years ago that you would have this capability to be able to do this kind of thing as a small Laundromat or a group of Laundromats or whatever, that would blow your mind. I mean, it’s blowing my mind now, like all the things that are happening right now. Right. And I love that you guys are dedicated to kind of being on the forefront of that for us and for the industry, because we need more of that. We’ve been kind of stuck in a rut as an industry for a really long time and we’ve kind of been doing the same things and getting the same results. And the people who are breaking out, there’s a reason that a lot of the names that you dropped earlier in the episode here are the ones that are killing it. Right. It’s because they’re doing the things that are on the forefront. They’re evolving, they’re growing, they’re building they’re utilizing technology, all of these things. Right. And this is a huge part of doing all those things, and a lot.

Barbara Wardell [00:28:58]:

Of them are generations, so they’re just building on what they had. But using the technology today to grow so much more, it’s amazing to see it.

Jordan Berry [00:29:09]:

Yeah. Pretty cool. Okay. Going back to it. So we were talking, and we’ve kind of talked about this a little bit, but we were talking about the Hitchhiker Effect. Can you talk about that a little bit and what that is?

Ernesto Cullari [00:29:22]:

So the Hitchhiker Effect is where you walked into a geofence. You were targeted with an ad, and then you may see the ad on your phone, but then the next thing you know, your mom sees the ad, your dad sees the ad, your two brothers see the ad, but across all the devices in the house. So one of the things that this allows us to do is when we identify one phone, we anonymize It, and then that phone hitchhikes on to all the other devices in the house. And as you know, families tend to use laundromat together. They tend to use the same one. So the Hitchhiker Effect is something we kind of figured out, like, hey, if we captured one device, why not try to get every device in the house? And that’s something that we came up with. And the Hitchhiker Effect. Do you ever watch Jeremy Corbell?

Jordan Berry [00:30:21]:

Yeah.

Ernesto Cullari [00:30:22]:

So. Jeremy Corbell, UAPs Alien Technology. Barbara and I are always thinking, like, what’s the next level? How can we take this to the next level? And then I heard if you go to Skinwalker Ranch are you familiar with Skinwalker Ranch? That’s where they see all these UAP UFO stuff.

Jordan Berry [00:30:44]:

Yeah. Okay.

Ernesto Cullari [00:30:46]:

If you go to Skinwalker Ranch, a lot of these guys would take I don’t know if they’re cursed or whatever, but they take these experiences back home to their families. It’s pretty crazy. You should check out The Hunt for Skinwalker or something, one of those documentaries on it. But it’s pretty interesting. So that’s how I came up with the idea of hitchhiking, is like, wait, it’s a bad thing for these guys, but we can use if we can apply it to what we’re doing, let’s do it. And we have.

Jordan Berry [00:31:17]:

I love that. That is how you came up with this idea.

Ernesto Cullari [00:31:19]:

This is yeah, I mean, it’s that UAP stuff. All that UFO podcast that I listen.

Jordan Berry [00:31:25]:

We’Re bringing alien technology to Laundromats.

Ernesto Cullari [00:31:28]:

That’s right. Hey, man, aliens need laundry, too.

Jordan Berry [00:31:33]:

Everybody needs clean clothes, travel. When you travel, you just got to start clean, start fresh. I like that. All right, awesome. Well, first of all, I think that’s awesome capability to have to be able to target sort of, the rest of the family and on multiple devices. Again, just the amount of targeting is super powerful. There. Obviously, I can see how that can be super effective. It concerns me a little. Bit about targeting my brother while he’s in the bathroom because I don’t know, I need to think about that a little bit more. But why do I get wash her.

Ernesto Cullari [00:32:25]:

Hand out all the time? I don’t know.

Jordan Berry [00:32:31]:

That’s weird. That’s weird. Okay, can we talk a little bit about targeting strategies then? While you’re doing these, you’re geofencing, whether it’s competitor or that dollar tree or whatever that’s down the street, that you find out that a lot of customers are coming from as you’re targeting them, what are you learning about demographics? Or are you targeting certain demographics? How does that work?

Ernesto Cullari [00:33:02]:

Sure. The Willifords, for example, they have decided to split their ads. So one strategy is in English, and there’s a bunch of targets that we have about 100 or so targets for English speaking customers, but then we have a whole list of targets that we have for Spanish speaking customers. And the demographic targets are different. It could be Latinx grocery stores. It could be.

Barbara Wardell [00:33:39]:

They have different behaviors.

Ernesto Cullari [00:33:41]:

Yeah, different grocery stores. I’m Filipino, right? So I’m very particular if I’m going to order some Filipino stuff where I go to do that. Right. So if, God forbid, you got two Filipino restaurant tours going head to head, you have to kind of figure out where each other’s customers go to before or after coming to one of our restaurants. It’s the same with Latinx or Latino customers that are strictly Spanish speaking. They like, I would like to go to stores that would cater to some of the things that I’d like to shop for. Right. Have you eaten much Filipino food?

Jordan Berry [00:34:25]:

Absolutely.

Ernesto Cullari [00:34:27]:

One, no one knows this, but Lumpia, we have the best egg rolls, right? It’s called Olympia. It is the crack cocaine of egg rolls. So, I mean, if flavor flavor writing that day would have eaten this instead of doing all those drugs.

Barbara Wardell [00:34:44]:

He keeps saying he’s going to make.

Ernesto Cullari [00:34:46]:

Them for me, but that is true.

Barbara Wardell [00:34:48]:

I haven’t done it yet.

Ernesto Cullari [00:34:50]:

In terms of strategies, you look at a given demographic. I know in Seattle, there is a Pacific Islander population, and sometimes we’ve considered running ads specifically in those languages to better serve those people. So we try to do the same when the client wishes to. We try to offer that capability as well.

Jordan Berry [00:35:20]:

Yeah, well, and it’s natural, right. Like, we all are just attracted to the things that are similar to us. Right. And especially if you’re speaking my language, like literally or sort of culturally, it’s just going to speak to me more. Right. And it doesn’t matter what the culture is, it’s going to speak to you more that way. So targeting with ads that speak people’s languages makes all the sense in the world. Like you were saying, I think it’s a super powerful tool to not only understand who you’re speaking to and to know who you’re speaking to in those demographics, but also to be able to specifically target them in a way that speaks to them, that’s going to attract them to your business and make them want to do business with you and also communicate that you care about their language and their culture, even if it’s different than your own as an owner, which is pretty cool.

Ernesto Cullari [00:36:14]:

You’re making me think. One of the other strategies Barbara and I like to do is hiring campaigns.

Barbara Wardell [00:36:20]:

Oh, the recruitment campaign.

Ernesto Cullari [00:36:22]:

Recruitment campaigns for laundromat and other businesses. One of the things that we talk about in the ad creatives and on the landing page that we lead them to is the culture. So if you’re going to work for the wash house or you’re going to work at Best Wash with Brandon and Becky, they’re going to educate their employees. They’re going to treat them like family, and they’re only looking for the best. Right? They’re only looking for the best people. And we speak to that on the landing pages. And what we decided to do, Barbara and I, is we’re trying to recruit employees, but we’re like, let’s see what happens in terms of visitation. We have not run a single campaign for hiring where we didn’t get 100 customers in a month to come do their laundry. We’re talking about the culture. We’re not selling them safe and just.

Barbara Wardell [00:37:22]:

Family oriented, and they really gravitate towards that. They said, wow, this company, this laundry mat, is treating their employees so well. I want to go there and support that laundry mat, and I want to see what’s going on. So we’ve done an amazing job with that.

Ernesto Cullari [00:37:40]:

It was very cool to see that happen. And I’m sorry for Brandon and Becky. They actually didn’t get a single employee from the campaign. They got a lot of customers. Becky was like, we didn’t get anyone. But we were like, but we sent you 100 customers.

Barbara Wardell [00:38:02]:

Luke and Lee had so many.

Ernesto Cullari [00:38:04]:

Yeah. On the other hand, yes, Luke and Lee did get we had to stop.

Barbara Wardell [00:38:08]:

Those campaigns because they had too many applications. Oh, my gosh.

Jordan Berry [00:38:13]:

Listen, Luke, Lee, if you’re listening to this, you’re taking the wrong step here. Don’t stop the campaigns. Open more laundromats to fill the need of the employees. Okay, let’s pick up the pace a little. You guys are slowing it down.

Barbara Wardell [00:38:29]:

Got to get moving. There a little slow.

Ernesto Cullari [00:38:33]:

Algorithm had with the willifords, like, all right, if they open up a laundry mat, what other business should we put next to their laundry mat so we can make some money? You know what I mean? So maybe we need to open up an ice cream shop or a gelato place right next to every wash house or grocery store, something. Yeah, we need it on the action. That’s what we listen.

Barbara Wardell [00:38:57]:

All right, we got to figure that one out.

Jordan Berry [00:39:00]:

Yeah. Listen, if you’re going to piggyback on somebody’s business, talk about hitchhiker effect. This is like a physical hitchhiker. I like it all right. Okay. Well, first of all, I think that’s super creative. The hiring campaign, basically, I love that. And I love that it kind of works on both sides. Well, except for with Brandon, Becky, but in terms of getting customers and hopefully getting employees for your laundromats. But can we shift gears just a tiny bit? Okay. We talked about Geofencing, what it is, some of the strategies that you guys use and all that. Okay, so let’s say I walk into your Geofence here, and I’m a marked man now, and now I’m going to piggyback that to all of my family and all that. Can we talk about okay, so now what are you showing them in the business, the ad creatives that you’re actually showing them? Can we talk about that a little bit?

Ernesto Cullari [00:40:03]:

Sure. Biggest washers, hottest dryers, in and out, and laundry lab. Now, their machines get you in and out in 35 minutes if you really want to sort of dash and do your laundry as quickly as possible. But we speak to the benefits of the biggest washers, hottest dryers, getting you in and out as quickly as possible. In some cities, we run ads that talk about the safest or the cleanest for a lot of the Spanish creatives, because we know that people tend to do laundry together as a family, go to the same place. We talk about a family atmosphere that might be in the ad. And then it’s very important, no matter what kind of advertising you’re doing, it’s important that your ad creative that someone sees on their phone or on their computer matches the promise that they get when they’re coming to your website or when they come to the landing page. So what we do to make the whole experience without friction is the ads. The creative message will both match for your ad and for your landing page. But on the landing page, Barbara and I put, we embed a Google map. So we’re literally showing them how to get to your store. And it doesn’t matter if you have 30 stores. We built a custom Google map on each landing page so people can see how close they are to one of your stores.

Barbara Wardell [00:41:36]:

And if they want to go right then and there, they’ll just pop it and get directions.

Ernesto Cullari [00:41:40]:

Yes.

Jordan Berry [00:41:41]:

Yeah, that’s pretty cool. And I can’t even remember who I talked with this about on one of the previous million podcast episodes. But we talked about removing friction, right? When you can remove any kind of friction, don’t make the customer do any work. Make it as easy as possible. So they click on your ad. There’s a landing page right there. The map is there. They can just click, get directions or see how close they are right there, and then they can just head right over there. They’ll know exactly where you’re at. So removing that friction is huge there. What kind of ads are you actually using? Are you using photos? Are you using videos? Are you dancing on TikTok videos?

Ernesto Cullari [00:42:26]:

Personally, I’d watch Barbara, but I wouldn’t watch me. So we do a lot of original photography.

Barbara Wardell [00:42:35]:

It’s very important to us for background.

Ernesto Cullari [00:42:37]:

We’re not using stock. And if I’m ever tempted to use stock, barbara yells at me and goes, don’t be so lazy. You’re a real photographer. Get out there and do some real work. So she kicks me out, pick up my camera. So we’re shooting our own.

Jordan Berry [00:42:52]:

I like Barbara a lot. As long as she doesn’t start making me do work.

Ernesto Cullari [00:42:56]:

Exactly, right? Barbara has an Aunt Barbara, and it’s very comedic. Her Aunt Barbara will show up at Barbara’s house and make her do work.

Barbara Wardell [00:43:08]:

She’s my storm. I love her. She comes in, she’s like, Barbara, I.

Ernesto Cullari [00:43:11]:

Don’T care that you’re a businesswoman, that you have priority. I need you to go weed whack.

Barbara Wardell [00:43:22]:

Or move something or maybe fix something on a cell phone.

Jordan Berry [00:43:27]:

I just hired an admin, and it was the same thing. We had our first meeting, a new admin, right? We had our first meeting and I came up with a huge to do list. And I was like, Wait.

Barbara Wardell [00:43:41]:

That’S what I do every time she comes. Only go on.

Ernesto Cullari [00:43:46]:

So we pick up the camera, we hire models.

Jordan Berry [00:43:50]:

It’s weird. I haven’t gotten any phone calls.

Ernesto Cullari [00:43:55]:

I won’t tell you what the bodies are. So we actually commandeer fluff and fold from Charles Measley, and we shoot a lot of our photo shoots and his laundromat in the creative, they see. So, face. This is something that everybody should write down for any kind of ad you do. Faces sell. No matter what, faces sell products, right? So, for example, we do a lot of food photography for the Indigo Hotel. It’s a worldwide hotel. We do some food photography for them when we shoot. It’s like food is lusty. You look at it, you’re immediately motivated to figure out how you can stay at the Indigo Hotel. Right? Well, for other products, faces are what sell. That’s what makes something approachable. Doing an ad with clean towels is not enticing. But seeing a friendly face in an ad holding a clean towel or a comforter is enticing. Because you’re like, oh, that person. They’re using this laundry mat. They have a friendly face. Maybe that person works there. I like friendly faces, so I want to go there. So I would say, no matter what kind of ads you’re doing, whether you’re using Geofencing or not, it’s not as important as are your ads engaging? Are you including faces of real people? Not stock photography? The iPhone 14 pro Max that we have now, you can do anything with it. Put in portrait mode and you’re going to get a gorgeous image. So, yeah, we’re putting faces in a lot of our ads.

Barbara Wardell [00:45:46]:

This is very personal, which is awesome.

Ernesto Cullari [00:45:48]:

Yes. And yes, we can do video. We can turn a video into a geofencing ad. So a 15, 2nd, 32nd, 62nd ad can if someone views it, we can track their, their device, we can anonymize it and then we can record a visit when they come in after seeing that ad.

Jordan Berry [00:46:09]:

Pretty incredible stuff. Pretty incredible stuff. And I mean, doing your own photography and hiring models or just the whole faces thing, right? It also is a way to communicate your business culture, the culture of the community that you’re in. All of those things matter, right? And so using original images as opposed to stock images allows you sort of to craft that story or that atmosphere that you’re trying to communicate for your business. Which is huge, right. Because it will help you relate better to your customers and the whole classic people want to do business with people that they know, like and trust. And if you’re communicating, hey, we care about this community and we care about the culture of our business and the culture of our community. And you can communicate that through images. The whole picture is worth 1000 words thing. I’m just throwing all the cliches out there. But it all kind of comes together when you’re able to craft the ad creatives exactly the way that you want to. And not necessarily always use boilerplate templates which are out there also.

Ernesto Cullari [00:47:24]:

So I sent you a couple of slides talking about the rule of thirds. So to give you an example on a phone, when you take your phone like this, it takes someone’s photo. The rule of thirds is how you compose the subject. So say there’s a person right here and then there’s background in two thirds. That is using the rule of thirds to instead of putting someone right in the middle, right. When you put someone off on the side in terms of composition, the eye often wanders from corner to corner of the image and it allows for the viewer to insert themselves in the scene. All you need to do is for someone to tell you that go out there and start talking to people. If you see a customer in your laundromat, you think they represent your brand, who you are, who you’d like to become your customer. Whip out your phone, have them sign a release and you have some content.

Jordan Berry [00:48:27]:

Yeah, first of all, I’ll put all the slides that you sent me and stuff I’ll put on the Show Notes page. So if you’re interested in checking out these slides and the things that he’s talking about, check them out on the Show Notes page. And also a lot of cameras, including your phone, probably, I know the iPhones do, probably mostly Androids do too. You can actually overlay the rule of thirds. It looks like a TicTacToe pattern basically on your phone screen, so that you can actually compose your image using the rule of thirds. And if you just put the people’s eyes where the intersection of the top two lines intersect. You’re going to have the rule of thirds there, and it will greatly improve just the look and feel of your image right there. Super easy, super simple.

Barbara Wardell [00:49:21]:

Absolutely.

Ernesto Cullari [00:49:22]:

And one thing I would recommend is never use flash. Natural light is more seductive, for lack of a better word. Natural light is more enticing and it’s more inviting for the viewer. Natural light. So try to angle your subject or your model so that natural light is coming from the street or from the window so that their face is naturally illuminated.

Jordan Berry [00:49:50]:

Beautiful. I didn’t even know that we were going to get like a photography lesson in here. This is great.

Ernesto Cullari [00:49:56]:

I’m passionate about photography. We are both barbara. Actually, I just did a photo shoot with Barbara. I know, like, your photos will have to send. Jordan, those photos to put up.

Barbara Wardell [00:50:06]:

Came out amazing. I have to say we did great photos. Oh my gosh. Gorgeous.

Ernesto Cullari [00:50:10]:

It was fun.

Jordan Berry [00:50:11]:

Yeah. Well, shoot, man. I mean, can you do anything with this? You also would probably need some photoshop, some heavy photoshop to make this.

Ernesto Cullari [00:50:23]:

I think we’ll need plane tickets to.

Barbara Wardell [00:50:24]:

Come to California, I think, so we could do a thing for yeah, we.

Ernesto Cullari [00:50:28]:

Could be bribed with plane tickets.

Barbara Wardell [00:50:29]:

Yeah, that’s what I was talking about.

Jordan Berry [00:50:31]:

Sounds like a vacation. I like it. Okay, so when you’re utilizing or let’s just say somebody’s like, okay, I want to try running some ads or whatever, and they use you rule of thirds or whatever, how do you turn just a photo into an ad? How do you make it an ad?

Ernesto Cullari [00:50:48]:

Okay, so one of the most common ad sizes is 300 by 250 pixels. So that’s like almost a square. And the most common way to utilize the square is on one half of the square is you have your model in a Laundromat. And then on the right hand or the left hand side, you would have your copy. So it could be like best wash, biggest washers, hottest dryers. We’re right around the block sea location. So we almost never run a text only ad. There’s no point in reading text. Yeah. You only have a few seconds to.

Barbara Wardell [00:51:35]:

Capture their you want to show as.

Ernesto Cullari [00:51:37]:

Much of the environment or the people there as possible, and then you have your call to action. So the other large format would be 300 320 by 480, which looks like an eight by ten Instagram ad. An ad like that. Again, mostly, mostly a face in a Laundromat. And then, you know, very little copy the logo and and sea location. It’s as we said before, you know, you want to remove friction, so not too many words. Faces sell. A good composed ad with a face will convert more than text.

Jordan Berry [00:52:19]:

Yeah. And just so everybody’s clear, copy means text or on the ad. So I just want to make sure everybody’s on the same page. Are you guys approaching or can you talk about how you maybe approach this with different customer groups? Like you have self serve, wash drive fold, pickup and delivery. Are there any nuances to the different types of customers that you’re trying to drive to a laundromat?

Ernesto Cullari [00:52:46]:

Sure. Well, when you mentioned the different verticals wash dry fold, pickup and delivery, self serve, that kind of ad that will convert a self serve customer is not the kind of ad that a pickup and delivery customer would respond to.

Barbara Wardell [00:53:06]:

Very different.

Ernesto Cullari [00:53:07]:

So anyone can pretty much be a target for pickup and delivery and wash dry fold. So it’s important what ad inventory you use. So, for example, we were talking about the capability now that we can geofence any social media post, right. We can use any kind of social media post to reach someone. A social media geofencing ad for pickup and delivery will be more effective than a display ad because unfortunately, display ads really target people who are heavy phone users. Whereas a social media post, it’s a different personality, different mindset, and you need to take up more real estate to get their attention. They’re not going to respond to a margin, a display ad on a margin. So we do put different strategies together depending on who the desired audience is. And as you know, more and more operators are getting into wash dry fold and pickup and delivery. And I personally believe that geofencing can be so effective for pickup and delivery because if Barbara is going to use fluff and fold to pick up her laundry and we can then start targeting all of Barbara’s neighbors. So if we want to keep your Aunt Barbara busy, well, that’s a good idea. We probably send Aunt Barbara a wash dry fold to get her out of the house.

Jordan Berry [00:54:52]:

Get her out of the house.

Ernesto Cullari [00:54:53]:

To get her out of the neighborhood. Whereas for you, we would target you with pickup and delivery and all your neighbors. So we would target Barbara with the pickup and delivery ad and then along the route for economic purposes, again reducing friction, making us as business owners, making our job easier. It’s better to grab her neighbors too, right, instead of having your route that takes you all over the place. Geofencing for pickup and delivery can be so effective because we can target the neighbors of your existing customers and make that route fuller.

Jordan Berry [00:55:29]:

Yeah, which is huge. Right. Because I think a lot of the struggle of pickup and delivery is if you end up spread out all over the place, then you’ve got the cost, obviously, of having somebody a lot higher yeah. To drive around everywhere and gas and all that stuff, but also just the time it takes, right, when you’re all spread out everywhere. So clustering your customers together is huge. And I’m also like, as you were talking, I was like, holy cow. I was thinking as we were talking earlier. We’re talking about the Dollar Store and all that stuff. Like, the foot traffic study could be huge with pickup and delivery, because if you know, like, hey, these customers are all going to Whole Foods beforehand, well, bam. You know, like, pickup and delivery customers. I think the power of that foot traffic study and maybe I’m wrong, but I’m just thinking my marketing mind is just thinking the power of that foot traffic study actually is probably much larger with something like pickup and delivery than even self serve, which is pretty incredible, I think.

Ernesto Cullari [00:56:44]:

Yeah. You want to know where people are going and their habits. That information you could draw a lot of inferences from, you can draw a lot of conclusions from. And you can tell a consumer’s affinity for a certain service based on where they go.

Jordan Berry [00:57:00]:

Yeah.

Barbara Wardell [00:57:01]:

And this is where we both shine because we were in the medical industry, and we love data. So the more data we get, the more creative we get with it.

Jordan Berry [00:57:13]:

I think you guys are really just, like, missing the boat on this industry because we don’t deal with data. I’m just kidding. I love that. Right? Like, being on the cutting edge of stuff, utilizing data to make decisions and to target your marketing, all that. I just think our industry is starving for that, and probably most of us don’t even know it, right? Like, we don’t even know what we’re missing out on. And just, like, the power of this kind of capability for a business like Laundromat is I don’t know. I think it’s just game changing, in my view.

Ernesto Cullari [00:57:54]:

Yeah. The Laundromat customer tends to be a renter. Right. And at least nationwide, you know, the majority of people who would use a self serve laundry, they’re renters. So we spent a lot of time looking at where renters live. Foot traffic studies are helpful in that identifying, hey, we get eight customers or 20 customers a month from this one apartment complex. We need to send more ads into that complex. So that is one of the benefits of having the foot traffic studies, is that we can see where people are coming from. We could see where people are not coming from, which is also just as important. If Barbara and I owned a Laundromat on Main Street, and no one from Main Street, none of those apartments, no one’s coming from there, then we know we have a problem, and we need to take that foot traffic study and really look at where we’re lacking and apply some TLC there. And we need to see where we’re strong and spend more assets there as well to make the most out of that information.

Barbara Wardell [00:59:04]:

And renters, they’re there from one to three years. So you always have to target those areas.

Ernesto Cullari [00:59:10]:

Yes.

Barbara Wardell [00:59:10]:

Because they’re always moving.

Jordan Berry [00:59:12]:

A lot of turnover.

Barbara Wardell [00:59:13]:

Yeah, a lot of turnover.

Jordan Berry [00:59:14]:

Yeah. You’ll be interesting. I don’t know about the legalities of this or anything. But if you had customers that were in like, say, a big complex, it’s got like 100 units or something like that, right. And you got a customer in there, it’d be really interesting to offer one of those customers like, hey, we’ll give you $100 of laundry on a laundry card or whatever to be a model for us for an ad. And make an ad with somebody in this complex that basically just says, hey, I’m your neighbor and I do my laundry over here because there’s a lot of trust that’s built. You got to make sure it’s the right neighbor, that annoying person that nobody likes. Maybe there’s too much risk with that.

Barbara Wardell [00:59:58]:

How about going there?

Jordan Berry [01:00:00]:

Yeah. That could backfire on you. Okay, so maybe that’s not a great idea. But I was just thinking that’d be really interesting because you could get really personal right, with being able to geotarget like that, which would be kind of interesting.

Ernesto Cullari [01:00:13]:

Well, Charles Measley from Fluff and Fold, he has asked us to customize some ads for specific apartment buildings. So that’s something that he had thought of quite a while ago.

Jordan Berry [01:00:28]:

I know Charles and he’s never been on the podcast. So I think, Charles, you need to be on the podcast. I’m going to reach out to you after we get off of this.

Ernesto Cullari [01:00:38]:

Yeah, Charles is good. Not only did he build with his family two self serve laundromat, but he does quite a lot of pickup and delivery with his business. And he owns with two of our buddies, Suds Digital. So he has his own agency. And unlike most people that run an agency, he actually went to school for marketing.

Jordan Berry [01:01:04]:

Right.

Ernesto Cullari [01:01:05]:

Thus he ran my political campaign. And I’ve never threatened to kill someone so many times in my life.

Barbara Wardell [01:01:11]:

Edit that.

Jordan Berry [01:01:17]:

Charles ends up not coming on the podcast. Probably. We don’t know where you I mean, missing good.

Ernesto Cullari [01:01:28]:

Yeah. So Charles actually has a really good, strong background in marketing, and they do websites and social, and we consider them well, he’s like family.

Jordan Berry [01:01:41]:

Yeah. Awesome.

Ernesto Cullari [01:01:42]:

We think Charles is great.

Jordan Berry [01:01:43]:

Awesome. Charles, you’re a marked man, not for death, but for coming on the podcast and maybe a little bit for death. I have a note in one of our emails that just says we need to talk about the weather. So why do we need to talk about weather in this conversation? I hear it’s nicer weather there than here right now. Today.

Ernesto Cullari [01:02:07]:

Finally we’re on the Jersey shore, Barbara and I.

Barbara Wardell [01:02:09]:

It’s a beautiful day. The sun is just shining today. We really had a nice Memorial Day weekend. We don’t have too many of them lately down the shore in the last couple of years. So this was really a blessing.

Ernesto Cullari [01:02:24]:

And we’re not envious at all that you’re in Sunny, California.

Barbara Wardell [01:02:27]:

Yeah, not today anyway.

Jordan Berry [01:02:29]:

Not sunny today. What’s going on here? I’m like when’s summer going to get here, but is that what we need to talk about weather wise.

Ernesto Cullari [01:02:37]:

In some parts of the country, they have dynamic changes in weather. And what’s wonderful about that is so, for example, we’ve had great success running rainy day ads. Our ad creative is a window pane with water going down the window pane, and it says, don’t waste the day. Come do laundry at Fluff and Folder, whatever client we’re running that for. But it’s a fun creative. It shows a wet glass window pane, and then we run ads when it’s really sunny out. Best wash. Last summer we did a pool. So it was a pair of flip flops on the ground next to sunglasses next to the pool. It got a lot of visits, and we ran it because Laundromats at least a best wash. They’re all immaculate. Their AC is kicking in the summer, so it’s going to be cooler at the Laundromat than it is at the pool. And that’s kind of the ad campaign that we ran. And ad based, creatives and ad based campaigns could be highly affected. In fact, those ads are only triggered when it rains, or it’s only triggered during a heat wave. So it’s being nimble with your ads and being precise, precise messages to particular audiences that you want to reach is effective. And then weather based people are very affected by the weather, especially when it rains. So why not give them something positive to do? Come by the you know, get all your laundry done. Don’t waste the day. Don’t stay home and depressed. Come to Fluff and Fold. We’ll be happy to see you. So running those responsive ads based on the weather we found has been very effective.

Jordan Berry [01:04:35]:

Yeah, and that’s something that wouldn’t normally even think about, right? To run an ad specifically because it’s rainy or humid outside. I don’t know. Whenever I go to the East Coast, I’m always like, where’s the nearest air conditioner? That’s super clever, and I could see how that could be super effective, actually.

Barbara Wardell [01:05:00]:

Yeah, we really take our time with researching the demographics in the areas with the weather of all our Laundromat, where they are, because we live in the East Coast. So we want to learn about their environment and what they go through, whether they have more rain in areas versus not. And that’s why it’s so important when you’re looking at a geofencing company that they don’t outsource your work. Because this is what Ernesto and I do. We go into the trenches and we’re really analyzing everything and seeing what’s the best tactics for our customers, our laundry mat owners. And it’s very important because if you’re not in the trenches and you’re outsourcing it, you’re not going to get the same results and the same care, because we really do care about our customers.

Jordan Berry [01:05:57]:

Yeah. And that comes through. Okay. So you guys are very digital, obviously. Is that the way to go? I mean, is that the only should. We focus all on digital advertising platforms. And maybe you’re biased, maybe you’re the wrong person to ask, but I’m just curious, is there any value in doing offline marketing still?

Ernesto Cullari [01:06:19]:

For a long time, Barbara and I Barbara and I do it for ourselves.

Barbara Wardell [01:06:23]:

Yeah, we did well.

Ernesto Cullari [01:06:25]:

We have plenty of print assets. There’s a laundromat chain that we want to go after, and we want to bypass their corporate, and we’re going right to them with print. So we’re going to be putting Palm cards right in their hands, letting them know, like, hey, we’re going to put the power of geofencing in your hands and don’t take everything from your franchise, your franchise, or whatever they call them. But yeah, we do prints all the time, Barbara and I. One tactic you could do is every door direct, and we’ve done that a little bit. Yes.

Jordan Berry [01:07:07]:

What is that? Tell us what that is. Every door direct.

Ernesto Cullari [01:07:09]:

Every door direct. You could do through your post office, and you can print up assets and have them delivered to every home in a zip code. Or in particular, if you only want to do a particular neighborhood, you’d have to go to that post office. But yes, they could send a piece of mail, whether it’s a Palm card or a postcard for your laundry mat, and it’s delivered right in their mailbox. So you could put a QR code on there if you want to digitally measure the conversion. But, yeah, mail and print assets are very useful. And just because it’s a laundromat doesn’t mean that even if you’re doing it yourself, that you can’t put your best foot forward, take great photos, send it off to Canva. Canva will help you put that asset together because they have templates, have it printed up, and then mail it. Just because we’re in laundry doesn’t mean that we can’t have nice things.

Barbara Wardell [01:08:18]:

And I think the combination I want.

Jordan Berry [01:08:20]:

To write that down, by the way, just because we’re in laundry doesn’t mean we can’t have nice.

Ernesto Cullari [01:08:28]:

You’re not trying to be glamorous. You’re just trying to put your best you’re trying to represent yourself as best you can with really good media assets to the public and a piece of mail with some photos on there of happy faces.

Barbara Wardell [01:08:44]:

And it’s tangible, too, because you’re holding it in your hand. And it’s not every day that you’re doing that anymore. Even with mail, it’s like everything’s to your email address, which is a blessing, but the communication is nice. I still like old school. I like video chatting or just having a conversation between us. We meet a couple of times a week discussing what our next steps were going to be, how we’re going to market or what we’re going to do for our clients. It’s important.

Jordan Berry [01:09:22]:

Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Ernesto Cullari [01:09:24]:

You’re making me think when I look at mail that I get right, and I see, like, the cable company sends an ad or Verizon sends an ad, I throw it out. But when something like a place down the street sends something nice, whether it’s a restaurant or, say in this case, we’re talking about laundromats when you get a piece of mail of something local, it’s a lot different than getting a piece of mail from a big conglomerate or from the more personal you make it, the more life that that piece of mail or a digital ad is going to be. Top of mind. So that’s why we always continually say faces sell, a face will stay top of mind. A piece of mail nicely done from your local Laundromat is not going to hit the garbage as fast as a Verizon ad.

Jordan Berry [01:10:22]:

Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re targeting my wife, you throw a little coupon or discount or something on there, you got much better likelihood that won’t work on me because I don’t care about that. But my wife loves good.

Ernesto Cullari [01:10:35]:

She’s a smart shopper.

Jordan Berry [01:10:36]:

She is a smart shopper. I’m a horrible shopper. Yeah, I got another question for you because listen, I’ve been saying something for a while and I’ve gotten a lot of pushback, and I want your take on this. I think one of the biggest, I guess two, but they’re related, the biggest underutilized marketing strategies that will work is email and text marketing. But I’ve gotten a lot of pushback from that. Can you tell me if I’m off my hinges or you are 100% spot on.

Ernesto Cullari [01:11:11]:

And I’ll tell you why. You should never be giving away your WiFi for free, right?

Barbara Wardell [01:11:16]:

Oh, you’re going to tell them about that?

Ernesto Cullari [01:11:17]:

Yes. Never give away your WiFi for free.

Barbara Wardell [01:11:21]:

What you need to do is you.

Ernesto Cullari [01:11:24]:

Need to offer an opt in. So if you’re going to use our WiFi, you’re going to opt in, you’re going to give me your name, your email, and then you can remarket them. Same thing with text. At your point of sale, they could be opting in to text messages, and they have a 90 some odd percent open rate. The key is managing those contacts, managing.

Barbara Wardell [01:11:50]:

That data, very important data.

Ernesto Cullari [01:11:53]:

And it’s one of the few ways that you can actually control. So if you do, say, you’ve been running Facebook centric, Facebook specific campaigns, you don’t own that relationship. Meta owns that relationship. So if you’re in your Laundromat offering WiFi, you’re having the customer opt in to use it. That’s a one to one relationship that’s invaluable. Same with text. The key is how you’re going to manage that data after you have it and then not abusing it. Finding a tempo for sending out those emails and finding the tempo to send out those texts should be in a way that is not obtrusive. So coming up with that rhythm we get from Walid once a week, that’s a great rhythm. Walid Cope sends out his newsletter once a week. Really nice newsletter, usually on Sundays. And it’s a good tempo for text messaging. I would use it for if, God forbid, something happened at the Laundromat, like there was a fire or something like that, and you’re going to be closed for a holiday, it’s useful for that. And if you’re running the willifords, they do their double your money campaigns if you’re going to do something like that.

Barbara Wardell [01:13:20]:

But that you should be sparingly with it, that’s good.

Jordan Berry [01:13:23]:

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for one, you know, just for confirming that. Yeah, thank you. I do think that those are super underutilized and especially email. I think more people are on board with the text messaging thing, although I think that’s a little bit trickier to do because like you said, there’s a 90% open rate, and people, I think, have a pretty low tolerance for the text messages that they get if it starts to feel like spam. So that’s a little trickier in my view, to do it. But I think it can be super effective, super powerful. But even email, which I know a lot of people feel like is an old school method, a dinosaur method, it’s still effective, it still works, and it still translates to real dollars today email campaigns.

Barbara Wardell [01:14:14]:

So, yeah, they’re effective.

Ernesto Cullari [01:14:19]:

For wash, dry, fold, and for pickup and delivery, email campaigns can be effective. For self serve, just not so much. I think it’s a different mindset that each consumer has. Wash, dry, fold and pickup and delivery require a little bit more trust. If I’m staying, I don’t know, in Florida for a week and I see an ad to go do my laundry, yeah, I would convert. I would go use a laundry mat that would look clean as we expect in the industry. A well run ship, on the other hand. So I would respond to an ad, right, I would convert and go to a place. But for wash, drive, fold, it’s a little more personal. And for pickup and delivery, you’re coming to my house. So for that, if I received an email, you’re able to build a little bit deeper, trust, longer form in an email than you can in a conventional ad. So I think email is a stronger way to convert than say something, another kind of tactic.

Jordan Berry [01:15:36]:

Yeah, yeah. And you know, if you think about it, you’re paying, you know, this advertising, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re paying to get in front of customers and potential customers to get them to try you out and to get them to keep coming back. And when you own access to them without a gobiator, then it’s just very powerful. Now, it can take a long time to build up your email list or your text messaging list, and there’s a lot of different things that you can do to build that up. But once you have earned the right to have that information from your customers can be super powerful. And like you said, at that point, it’s converting a warm lead, not a cold lead like an ad might be a cold lead. Although Geofencing really helps whittle down the cold leads and hone in on, I’d say warm and even hot leads a lot of times.

Ernesto Cullari [01:16:36]:

Right? Because location is indicative of future behavior. So if you’re a divorce attorney and you want to find customers through Geofencing, we’d hit bars and strip clubs, we’re in laundry. So targeting other laundromat is indicative that you’re going to come to our laundry mat if we offer you a better enticement. You could also use Geofencing to build an email list by offering some sort of incentive when they get to your landing page. A lot of laundromats offer three services. It’s self serve, wash, dry, fold, pickup, and delivery. So if you’re going to use one campaign to reach all three, at least on the landing page, provide some opportunity for them to opt into your email list to receive some other incentives, whether it’s a percentage off or whatever kind of campaign you wanted to run. But it is important to own the relationship with your customer as best you can. And text message and emails should not be discarded. It should be part of your comprehensive marketing plan.

Jordan Berry [01:17:52]:

Yeah, awesome. Okay, so whenever marketing gets brought up on the podcast, the two things that come up are Google and Facebook. Now, obviously there’s no denying they can be powerful ways to market. Are those our only options? I mean, we’ve talked about some offline stuff and text messaging and emails, but should we be focusing mostly on Google and Facebook? Do we have other options? What’s your take on that?

Ernesto Cullari [01:18:23]:

I mean, in a perfect environment, yeah, you don’t want to skip stuff like Google or Facebook. Barbara and I, we have a Google business profile. We utilize our personal Facebook and Instagrams because we have large followings. I have 40 some odd thousand on Instagram and 5000 on Facebook, and another 5000, I think, on LinkedIn. So we utilize those other universes. But I would say in terms of cost effectiveness, the Google universe is more it’s certainly a head to head comparison of if you’re going to do Geofencing campaigns or Google, I would say you should probably do both. But if you’re going to have to choose one or the other, you’re going to get more bang for buck through Geofencing specifically, because the universe is not as expensive as the Google universe. Those ads that we’re running, we publish on over. It’s probably almost 200,000 websites and apps. The publishing universe that Barbara and I have, it’s out of the Google universe, so therefore it’s less competitive. And Geofencing is far more personalized than Google. While Google and Facebook will allow you to run ads in a certain geography, it doesn’t actually allow you to get surgically precise and send ads into a building. So you’re able to create your own niche universe with Geofencing, whereas, while, yes, you should run Google and yes, you should run Facebook. I think it’s best bang for Buck inside the Geofencing Universe.

Jordan Berry [01:20:16]:

Awesome. Okay, I have one more main question that I can think of off top of my head. And then I want to make sure I’m going to throw it to you after that and make sure we hit everything that you wanted to hit. But my question is, and I’m not going to ask you pricing and the main reason is not because I don’t want you to share your pricing or some kind of secret, but because this podcast episode will live for a long time. And like we said, everything changes all the time. So I will ask you after this question where you can send people to go find out more about you guys and how to get started with you guys, if that’s something that people are interested in. But I want to ask a pricing related question, which is at what point should Laundromat owners be considering this? Let’s say I own one small laundromat. Does it make sense for me to run Geofencing ads or do I need to own a big Laundromat or do I need to own multiple Laundromat? Can you help kind of give some guidance on when is it a good time to start looking into this as a Laundromat owner?

Ernesto Cullari [01:21:25]:

One of my favorite customers, she sold her Laundromat. Her name is Stacey Ronfollow. She’s Jeremy meets Stacy. She had a few, but one of them was the smallest Laundromat on Earth and it was right next to a 711 and it didn’t have air conditioner. It didn’t have air conditioner. It’s like a cool garage door open, right? And it was an open air Laundromat and it was tiny. Shi Geofenced for that location. And wasn’t this giant 5000 square foot operation, it maybe was 800 sqft. It was tiny. We do a lot of openings. So for example, we just did Star Laundromats in Staten Island. We send him 90 customers a month for three months straight to start.

Barbara Wardell [01:22:19]:

That’s great.

Ernesto Cullari [01:22:21]:

He put a new sign and a new logo. He painted, he opened the doors and boom, it was gangbusters.

Barbara Wardell [01:22:27]:

Great way to start an opening, right?

Ernesto Cullari [01:22:30]:

We opened laundry lab in Tampa. Tampa day 150 customers a month each month for the first 90 days. And it builds on after that because.

Barbara Wardell [01:22:42]:

You know, you’re compounding those customers because they’re staying if you keep them. Yes, with your culture and how you treat them. So it really makes a big difference in your bank account.

Ernesto Cullari [01:22:54]:

Start early, though. I would say definitely start early.

Barbara Wardell [01:22:58]:

Even when you just open. It’s a little rough sometimes with that, but it will bring in the customers.

Ernesto Cullari [01:23:07]:

I was just talking to my friend who opened up a coffee shop and she put the best machines in and she repainted and she did her hiring. She didn’t budget for advertising and marketing. And you really won’t grow as fast. I’m not saying do geofencing, right? I’m not saying you have to do that. I’m saying you have to market and advertise. It’s just you have to do it. And if you want people to keep coming in, it’s something you have to do. But also, Burger King and McDonald’s, they’re advertising every day because they don’t take the relationship with you and me for granted. Part of it is making the effort, making the extension to reach out to people in your community to keep a touch on that client, that customer.

Barbara Wardell [01:24:10]:

You have to how many touches for you to get a customer right? You have to touch them in all different ways. And if you keep touching them, they’re going to keep coming back.

Ernesto Cullari [01:24:19]:

You’re going to make me laugh.

Jordan Berry [01:24:21]:

I’m not mature enough for this conversation going on. You were looking very professional there for a second.

Ernesto Cullari [01:24:40]:

I can’t take it. But you have to budget for marketing and advertising. Every business demands it. Every marketplace demands it. We happen to love Geofencing. So CALERIE Media is a full service ad agency. Caleria and Wardell, Barbara and I are focused on Laundromats only. And we did that. And we are geofencing specific because we believe that we can serve the most people in the most impactful way by mastering this technology, by being light years ahead of any, even major agencies that they’re not spending the kind of focus and the resources that we are on one specific skill. So our specific skill set is how do we grow a Laundromat with what is the most disruptive technology outside of AI? Geofencing is the most disruptive technology there is for a retail location that lives on people coming through the door. And Barbara and I were committed to our company to make sure that until we retire or sell 20 years from now, that we maintain that we are the most disruptive company that does Geofencing.

Jordan Berry [01:26:08]:

Yeah. Which also, and kind of to your point, like when I first bought my first Laundromat, basically the distributor told me, hey, we’re going to put all new equipment in here. We’re going to do a total remodel. And you don’t have to do marketing in this industry, you don’t have to do marketing in this business. And they sort of had the field of dreams, if you build it, they will come. So that’s what I did. And I will tell you that I did get customers that just came once kind of word got out. And the business did grow kind of organically, but not nearly as many as I needed and not nearly enough to even get me to break even for a really long time. It was just very slow growth that way. In fact, it sort of compounded on itself in my case, because he told me I didn’t need to advertise, so I didn’t. And because the growth was so slow and I was losing money, I actually got into this mindset where I was like, well, now I can’t advertise because I’m losing money. And it was just scary, right? And it was not the right decision, obviously, but it was scary because I’m losing money, and now I have to put more money out there. And I didn’t exactly know what to do or how to do it, and I didn’t know if it was actually going to turn me more customers and recoup my money or if I was just putting even more money out there. And so I got scared, and that caused me to clam up, shell up, and it was just this compounding thing that it was bad. It was just a bad situation. Right? And I firmly believe now I mean, it’s a big part of the reason why you’re on this podcast right now. I firmly believe that you do need to market in this industry, and more so now even than when I bought my Laundromat almost a decade ago now. It’s even more important now. And if you’re not marketing, it’s time to start venturing into that, because you don’t want to be tomorrow’s zombie Mat.

Ernesto Cullari [01:28:14]:

How did you meet your wife?

Jordan Berry [01:28:16]:

We met in college. She basically hit on me, and I was like, okay, we met in a college class.

Ernesto Cullari [01:28:26]:

You met in a college class. And is it fair to say that you spoke up and said something to her first?

Jordan Berry [01:28:32]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ernesto Cullari [01:28:34]:

Yeah.

Jordan Berry [01:28:34]:

I mean, she noticed me first, I’m pretty sure, because, I mean, look it, I’m just kidding.

Ernesto Cullari [01:28:41]:

So in every relationship that we have I met Barbara at a party. She was hanging out with these people. I was like, Stop talking to these losers. Talk to me.

Barbara Wardell [01:28:49]:

Let me say something. He had a whole face full of makeup.

Ernesto Cullari [01:28:53]:

Wait, you’re making it sound like one of those parties. Party. She’s making it sound like I wear lipstick every day.

Jordan Berry [01:29:01]:

What if I do?

Ernesto Cullari [01:29:02]:

But I don’t, for the record. And I had to go up to her. I had to introduce myself. I said, hey, give me your phone. I friended myself, accepted it.

Barbara Wardell [01:29:21]:

Really.

Ernesto Cullari [01:29:23]:

The important thing is that you had to make the effort to meet your wife. I had to make the effort to meet Barbara to introduce myself. And we can’t take any relationship that we have for granted, especially spouses or with your customers. So we have to always be asking for business. We have to always be asking to maintain that relationship with them and that trust. One of the things that we always do, our satellite provider said, why do you have your own businesses as targets? I go, Are you kidding me? That is Advertising 101. Don’t take the relationship that you have with your customers for granted. So we always remarket our own Laundromat. We’re always re asking them for the business and keeping that relationship.

Barbara Wardell [01:30:18]:

And you want that in the forefront of their brain and right in front of them saying, hey, you know what? You didn’t do your laundry like last week. Let’s go.

Ernesto Cullari [01:30:26]:

Like, you send an ad to your brother, wash those hands, bro. You got to stay front of mind, stay clean here.

Barbara Wardell [01:30:36]:

You get caught up in your day and you forget things, and then you’re running around and you always have to be in the forefront of something, so why not? You be able to use your business as in the forefront of your customers. Just because they’re in your parking lot doesn’t mean they’re coming to see you.

Ernesto Cullari [01:30:54]:

That is very true. We had a customer say to me and Barbara, they’re like, why are you targeting the store adjacent to mine? They’re already coming here. And I was like, this guy doesn’t know anything about advertising. No. You can’t take it for granted that you have a busy dollar store next to you. You can’t take it for granted that.

Barbara Wardell [01:31:18]:

An apartment building behind you, that they’re all coming to you.

Ernesto Cullari [01:31:21]:

Right. You have to ask for the business. If you don’t, I promise you, when I’m working for the competitor, we will be asking for the business. We’re always asking for the business because we don’t take any relationship, not our own relationships and not our relationships with our customers. We don’t take it for granted.

Barbara Wardell [01:31:39]:

And that’s another thing that we do. We offer exclusivity. So when we’re working for a laundry mat, we do not take the business up their competitor. We actually focus on our actual customer. And one of those reasons is because we want to keep our customers. Not only do we want to keep them, but we also want to show loyalty.

Ernesto Cullari [01:32:03]:

Yes. So we have exclusivity to whoever we’re working with. It means we can’t make as much money, but it’s the right way to do it. It’s the right way.

Barbara Wardell [01:32:15]:

And that’s something that we agreed to in the forefront of this whole concept.

Ernesto Cullari [01:32:22]:

Not when I first stole her phone, but short learning right after that.

Barbara Wardell [01:32:28]:

We didn’t know we were going to be in business together. Now, did. That’s true. I keep my phone away from him.

Jordan Berry [01:32:33]:

Now, just to let you know, a.

Ernesto Cullari [01:32:36]:

Smart man doesn’t touch another woman. It doesn’t touch a woman’s phone anyway.

Jordan Berry [01:32:39]:

Yeah, that’s right.

Ernesto Cullari [01:32:40]:

Don’t mess with her pocketbook and don’t mess with her phone.

Barbara Wardell [01:32:42]:

No, absolutely. It’s the phone now. I just did a speaking engagement for about 50 women, and we were doing it on geofencing and what we could do for them. And you know what? You did a survey. Are they picking up their phone or their purse? You know what? It was their phone. They would have left the purse.

Ernesto Cullari [01:33:04]:

It’s crazy, right? 20 years ago would not have been the case.

Jordan Berry [01:33:08]:

No, not even close. Yeah, it’s not surprising nowadays because our lives are on our phones, right?

Barbara Wardell [01:33:17]:

Yeah. We spend more time in our face in the phones than anything. You see your reports, you know how many hours you spend on social media and on your phones. It’s crazy. Audience yeah.

Jordan Berry [01:33:31]:

And I appreciate you guys saying that, too. And like you said, you might be passing up on some money potentially by offering sort of that exclusivity. But in an industry where right now, actually, that’s a pretty hot topic as we’re seeing manufacturers and distributors throw up stores next to our stores. And that’s a real thing that we’re dealing with right now in the industry that I am not happy about, by the way. But to hear you guys come out and say, hey, look, we’re not going to throw up shop right next to you and compete with you or have your competitor compete with you, we’re going to offer that exclusivity is a big deal. And going back to people want to do business with people they know, like and trust. I mean, that trust goes a long way. When you say, hey, you can sign on with us and be confident that we’re not going to put you out of business by working with your competitor next door, too. I’m going to ask you how people can get in contact with you, if they’re interested in hearing more about what you guys do, how you do it, and what it’ll cost them. But before I do that, is there anything else that we need to chat about, talk about before we wrap this thing up?

Ernesto Cullari [01:34:45]:

I don’t think so.

Jordan Berry [01:34:46]:

I think we pretty much we covered a lot of ground. Covered a lot of ground.

Barbara Wardell [01:34:50]:

A lot of ground.

Jordan Berry [01:34:52]:

And I appreciate you guys taking the time, coming on, putting together an incredible podcasting studio, putting mine to shame. I’m going to have to up my game now.

Barbara Wardell [01:35:03]:

I got to keep you on your toes show. We got to look good.

Ernesto Cullari [01:35:08]:

I brushed my teeth today.

Jordan Berry [01:35:10]:

Oh, my God.

Ernesto Cullari [01:35:11]:

Yeah. Usually I look like a homeless person now.

Barbara Wardell [01:35:16]:

We were very appreciative that you wanted to get in contact with us.

Ernesto Cullari [01:35:21]:

Yeah, it’s an honor. We appreciate it. To find us. It’s cwadagency.com awesome.

Jordan Berry [01:35:30]:

And I will have that contact information. I mean, easy to remember, but I’ll have it in the show notes, too, so you can just click it if you’re wanting to find out more information. Guys, you guys not only looked incredible, but you also were incredible. Lots of incredible stuff that you guys shared. Really appreciate you guys coming on and taking the time to educate us about geofencing, which on the one hand is really, really exciting, and on the other hand can be super overwhelming. So I’m appreciative for people like you guys that come out and give small businesses like Laundromats the capability to do these powerful marketing things that will help us grow our businesses, because that’s what it’s all about, right?

Barbara Wardell [01:36:22]:

Absolutely. Growing business in economy that is not cooperating. And we’re doing it. That’s right. We don’t care about that. We’re making it happen.

Jordan Berry [01:36:35]:

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you guys and look forward. I mean, listen, surefire way to get back on this thing is to compliment me, and there were enough compliments in here. I’m sure we’ll have you back.

Ernesto Cullari [01:36:48]:

Barbara was thinking, like, oh, Jordan’s got nice eyes. I think as a guy who wears makeup, I should feel comfortable saying it as well. For the record, I was the Scarecrow for Halloween, which is why I had all that makeup on.

Jordan Berry [01:37:03]:

Okay. All right, well, you’ll have to send me a picture, and I’ll throw it in the show notes so we can all be the judge of how good of a Scarecrow you wear.

Ernesto Cullari [01:37:14]:

So you guys offer packages, don’t you, for membership for well, we’d be happy to explore offering some discounts to your people. Something awesome.

Jordan Berry [01:37:25]:

Love that. And we’ll talk about what that is. And you know what? Let’s talk about that, and then when I do the intro to this show, I’ll mention that there and throw some links there. Awesome.

Ernesto Cullari [01:37:37]:

Great. Thank you, Jordan.

Jordan Berry [01:37:38]:

Guys. You guys rock. Appreciate you so much. And look forward to the next time.

Barbara Wardell [01:37:43]:

Yes, absolutely appreciate it. Bye, guys.

Ernesto Cullari [01:37:48]:

Thanks, Jordan.

Barbara Wardell [01:37:49]:

Thank you.

Jordan Berry [01:37:51]:

Hope you love that interview with Ernesto and Barbara. So much good stuff in there, as always. Pick one thing that you can take away and put it into action. I mean, there’s so much in this episode. The one thing, though, that I’m going to try to take away is that faces sell, right? So include faces in the things your marketing, in your advertising, in your social posts. Include faces. People like faces. And so I’m going to include more faces in my stuff. So what’s your takeaway? Go share it on Laundromatresource.com forums. Make sure you join the live Q and A July Pacific 01:00 p.m. Eastern, and you can check out sign ups for [email protected] events. And if you’re interested in working with them, make sure you join the pro community to get $300 off your initial service with them. All right, cool. Thanks for joining us. Hopefully you got a lot of good stuff out of that and see you on the next episode. Peace.